Vicare smart climate: feedback & experience after a month of use

[TakieYC]

Dear Viessmann community,

For about a month now I have a Vitodens 222-W B2LF installed together with a full Vicare smart climate setup (radiator-only heating, 9 thermostats, 2 repeaters and 2 climate sensors) in my house in Belgium. The basics work, however there are still a lot of issues that are not acceptable for such an expensive system:

- Boiler short cycling while in normal schedule and the requested temperature is lower then the actual temperature. E.g: rooms are 21°C, I leave the house for a couple hours and therefore set the temperature manually to 19°C. The thermostat valves close as expected. However now the boiler starts cycling instead of remaining inactive. From a software standpoint it should be trivial to communicate that all valves are fully closed and therefore block the boiler from firing up (in a full smart-climate system). However this is not the case. (screenshot in attachment)

- No away mode shortcut in smart-climate mode. This one really blows my mind.

- No geofencing in Belgium

- Boiler parameters 424.3 and 933.7 do not work in Vicare smart climate mode. Not mentioned anywhere.

- Boiler parameter 1240.0 not visible, so no means to shut down the pump in reduced mode.

- Manually set temperatures seems to remain active indefinitely

- No heating curve in the Vicare app when in smart-climate mode

- In vitoguide: all valve positions are always set to "fully closed". This off course is incorrect.

- I've had a bug that the date on my boiler was suddenly incorrect and that caused my schedule to become incorrect (e.g. rooms that needed heating up only on workdays started heating in up in the weekend). Pretty sure this happend because of the February leap day. Which is just plain amateurism.

- It doesn't help that this forum is completely in German, when the smart climate system is sold in other countries to.

On a more general level the UI looks nice but the overall UX is far inferior to (much cheaper!) 3rd party systems such as Netatmo, Nest or Tado. However they can no longer be used as Viessmann removed support for eBus and OpenTherm in its latest generation Vitodens 2xx products.

But by far the worst thing is: I've sent in total 5 emails over a period of a month to Viessmann to address these issues. Both in English to vicare-service@viessmann.com and in Dutch to connectivity@viessmann.be. Zero response!

The Smart Climate system has potential, but it's certainly not there yet. So pick up the slack and show us a roadmap how and when to tackle these issues. And for gods sake, respond to client feedback who put alot of money into this! At this point I'm ready to start spamming Max Viessmann himself on LinkedIn because no one is responding.

[jaccar]

Hello TakieYC

It seems true that post in English are not answered; so what i do now is create my post in French (I'm also in Belgium) translate it with google to German; take the translated version and translate it to French again in order to check that it's still understandable and if not i modify my text untill i can understand the translation to French and then i post it in German in the forum (and sometimes get some answer but no solution)

the browser google Chome allows easily to follow forum in other language

In this post

https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Konnektivitaet/Wie-quot-smart-quot-sind-die-ViCare-Thermostat... 
Benjamin_Reuter from Viessmann says that
"Currently, the room temperature is not yet reflected back to the system, so the system continues to operate when the time phase is active, even if the room temperature has been reached and the thermostats are closed, but there will be an update in this watch soon"

and in this one there is a discussion about parameter 1240 (but no solution)
https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Gas/Vitodens-200-W-Umwaelzpumpe-schaltet-nicht-ab/m-p/165744/... 
and this one
https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Gas/Neue-Vitodens-200-W-B2KF-Heizkreispumpe-geht-nie-aus-Para... 

for the No heating curve in the Vicare app when in smart-climate mode
I think that i have seen somewhere that you should disable the "smart room" mode and then you are able to see and modify the heating curve and the enable it

You can also have a look at my post related to my vitodens 200 W that did not respect the maximum temperature defined and create aquastat warnings at 91° with water boiling in the burner and you will see there the reaction of Viessmann Belgium

https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Gas/Der-Vitodens-200-W-B2HF-Kessel-haelt-die-maximale-Tempera... 

[TakieYC]

Hello Jaccar,

Thank you for your response. I was already aware of those posts (after google translating them). That those issues are known by Viessmann makes it even worse. This shouldn't have been released into the market in such an incomplete, immature and bugged state. Yet all 3rd party alternatives have been blocked.

I'm in software R&D myself. This feels very much like a company who wants to play software development with the big boys but is still in kindergarten.

I've payed a premium price for my install. I would expect premium level software and support. But this is not the case by any means. Fortunately the good thing about software is it can be rectified. So if anyone from Viessmann is reading this: you know what to do. The hardware is already top-notch. Now do the same for the software. Hopefully by the start of the next heating season the development has picked up. Else I would remain very disappointed in my purchase.

[jaccar]

Hello TakieYC

For the short cycle; which parameter did you have for 1606.0 and 1606.4?

[TakieYC]

I left 1606.0 on default (1) and played around a bit with 1606.4, values: 25, 50 and 80. I think the graph above is taken with value 50. Do note that those measurements where taken with heat sensors attached to the pipes. The real values should be around 5 - 6 °C higher.

As you probably known, the only thing 1606.4 does is change the cycling frequency and cut-off temperature a bit. And as you already mentioned in another post it completely ignores the maximum set temperature. So yeah...another bug.

In a real "smart" climate system there shouldn't be any cycling at all in this scenario. The way it works now, a better name would be dumb climate system.

[TakieYC]

Just compare this to Vicare, it's miles ahead: https://youtu.be/mhHEOS6FYrM?t=486

But again: no more support for KM-Bus, eBus, Opentherm,... in the latest Vitodens 2xx series so no 3rd party thermostat support whatsoever.

[TakieYC]

Couple more things I would like to add:

- Constant connection problems (in spite of excellent wifi reception at the boiler's location) and server maintenance warnings. Be it in Vitoguide, the Vicare app or a combination of both.

- Components signal strength status not reliable at all. Repeaters disconnects often, not sure if they even do anything. Signal strength can be <70dBm yet it keeps showing the full wifi bars symbol, ...

- No Google Home integration, or any other smart home framework for that matter.

- Software-based control only, no physical main control unit/thermostat to put in the living room.

[jaccar]

As you can see, there are no comments on this post

So i suggest that you translate it to german and put it in the connectivity part of the forum; i think most people are looking at this one

You can have a look at FHEM which has an integrated vitoconnect module

https://wiki.fhem.de/wiki/Vitoconnect 

Not sure that it's really what you want 

[TakieYC]

Hi jaccar,

Thanks for the info. Apparently nobody at Viessmann speaks English.

I've added a german version of my complaints here: https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Konnektivitaet/Vicare-Smart-Climate-schwerwiegende-Maengel/td...

[jaccar]

Hi  TakieYC

As you can see it works better in German and on the connectivity forum; no solution but at least someone has answered

I imagine that you have informed the installator about those problems; how does he react (does he tries to report at Viessmann Belgium)?

I remembered to have seen in the forum that the "radio low power" should be enabled on the boiler in order to be able to use the smart climate equipment, but this is not mentionned anywhere in the valve manual

I cannot imagine that an equipment designed for a "private radio network" will works if it's not enabled but i would like that you confirm that it's enabled on your boiler (and where did you find the info that it should be enabled)

[TakieYC]

Hello Jaccar,

My installer is the only good thing and the only one responding in this whole mess. But his hands are tied as well and I think he is quite embarrassed by how Viessmann is handling this.

He said: "the person responsible for your project is busy with product launches and hasn't been able to answer yet".

So zero response on my different mails to Viessmann BE starting from the 6th of March... because the person responsible is busy with something else. If I try to pull this at my company and not answer mails for 20 days straight, I would be fired.

The radio signal is enabled on my boiler. The installation was done by a representative from Viessmann himself. From whom I have his professional email address and is also not responding.

I am really starting to believe they are aware how bad the system is and try to cover it up as much as possible.

[TakieYC]

Below a picture of one of the many bugs concerning the signal strength I mentioned before. Weak signal (-79dBm) yet full strength symbol.

Not a particular severe bug this one, it's just an icon. But it shows alot about the level of testing and quality Viessmann upholds.

[TakieYC]

Couple more things:

- The system is fixed to weather compensation. No option for load compensation in smart climate mode.

- Not possible to set offset temperatures anywhere

[TakieYC]

Again connection problems in the Vicare app. While both my Ubiquiti access point and boiler shows everything is perfectly connected. Also right next to the boiler sits a raspberry pi with 24/7 rock-solid wifi connection. This happens on a weekly basis.

On Saturday the 27th of March I've sent my 6th mail to Viessmann with my list of problems, shortcomings and bugs. This time in English, German and Dutch and to: customer-care@viessmann.com, connectivity@viessmann.be, info@viessmann.be, vicare-service@viessmann.com.

Not a single response.

[TakieYC]

Boiler connection has been offline for 18 hours straight again. This is occurring weekly at the least.

And now the repeaters are disconnected again. Also happens weekly.

As said before doesn't seem to have any impact on the other components signal strength. So either the disconnection error is wrong, or the repeaters do nothing at all.

There is just no end to all the bugs and problems in this system.

As long as Viessmann keeps ignoring me and doesn't come up with a plan to fix this mess I'll keep posting all my problems here and in my German post.

In the meantime this post has reached spot nr.6 when you google "vicare smart climate" in Belgium.

[TakieYC]

Couple more things to add:

- The thermostat valves accept non-rechargeable 1.5V batteries only. Most have dropped to 85% charge after a month and a half of use. So most likely this will mean I have to replace 18 AA batteries after each heating season.

- In Belgium you can only get the system through official Viessmann dealers. No (online) shops. This means off course a heavy surcharge. Dealers are expensive.

- The only firmware version you seem to be able to lookup is that of the OPTO2 module, in vitoguide. All others components have their version not mentioned anywhere. And no way to manually check for updates. Not even sure which components can/will be updated. Will the boiler receive updates, the thermostats, the repeaters, ...? No clue.

[TakieYC]

My first correspondence to Viessmann about the Vicare Smart Climate system flaws dates back to February 20th. Since then I've tried numerous different communication channels and reminders.

Not a single meaningful response or change to this day.

When can I expect someone at Viessmann to take this seriously?

[TakieYC]

11 days ago I've submitted several of my comments that are in here also to the relevant Vicare FAQ topics: https://viessmann.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

To this day they are all "pending approval". Another ignore? Sure looks like it.

Meanwhile, this gained nr.4 spot when I google Vicare Smart Climate. I will keep posting here and I will keep contacting Viessmann until I finally get some decent response. This is shameful!

[Ivan2021]

Hi!

I’m planning to buy a gas boiler (to heat a total of 6 radiators in three rooms) and was searching for a solution. Because of relatively hotter weather here (in Bulgaria) and obviously smaller home I was looking for a moderate solution. Most of the manufacturers provide suitable solutions including Vissmann with their W-100 series. I was really surprised to find that the already update the lineup of W-100 and also decided to provide Viessmann’s own home automation solution. Started searching for more info and your post appears #6 for ViCare. I’m really disappointed to find out the long list of problems noted here while still I’m not sure ViCare will be able to work with W-100 boilers.

By the way, check the link below. I found a company that is designing the IOT lineup for Viessmann. Obviously they have a version of a thermostat with physical UI and output on a display. Looks really good (compared to many others), but the all the mentioned problems here are really discouraging.

I’ll continue following your posts, because they are the real review of the products, so thanks for your efforts!

https://www.pong.design/viessmann-vicare

[TakieYC]

Hello Ivan2021,

That is the Vitrotrol 300E. For some reason they designed it so it doesn’t work together with the Vicare Smart Climate setup: https://viessmann.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015248319-Does-my-Vitotrol-200-E-300-E-cooperate-...

Also it’s really expensive, at least here. The official price is 470 euro (incl. taxes)! Compare that to the Nest 3E thermostat which you can buy for around 220 euro.

Oh and I believe it needs to be usb powered. So you can’t just wall mount it to the pre-existing wiring.

[Ivan2021]

Ah, I see... So it’s sold here for around €405. Compared with a similar device for Bosch (€160) that is able to control different zones with radiator groups (up to 16 smart valves), online connection and all that is needed this price is outrageous.

[TakieYC]

Update on my communication with Viessmann Belgium, for those who should be interested:

At the end of June I finally received a call to discuss in-detail the problems and flaws I'm having with the Vicare Smart Climate (or Single Room Control as it also called) system. Do note that my first complaints about this where communicated at the end of February. So it took 4 months before I could actually talk to someone on the phone with knowledge on this topic.

Basically they acknowledged all my findings. I can summarize as follows:

Being worked on:

- Smarter control algorithm with dynamic setpoint adjustment, that takes into account measured room temperatures from the valves. They claim it should be more efficient and solve the short-cycling issues I'm having. Something similar was also mentioned by @Hansi_Buentgens in another post a while ago, so lets hope this is true. Because now it is basically no different from rudimentary "dumb" weather compensation that exists for maybe 30 years+.

- Faster valve motor reaction times. Now it apparently takes up to 20 minutes or more for the valves to adjust to changing temperatures.

- Better pump logic that does not run all the time.

- Geofencing in Belgium (be it payed, at around 25 euro/year)

- More stable/strong radiofrequency connection to the Vicare components

Acknowledged as missing, but nothing more:

- No eco-mode(reduces temperature) shortcut in the Vicare app

- Adjustable time periode for a manually set room temperature

- Smart home integration with apple homekit, google home or IFTTT

- per-valve temperature offset controls

- per-valve child lock control

Not discussed:

- Missing heating curve in the Vicare app when in Smart Climate mode

- Valve positions always on "fully closed" in Vitoguide.

Unfortunately I did not receive an ETA for any of this. I've owned this system now for half a year without any notable changes, so I'm skeptical about when it will arrive. It seems development is very slow paced and from what I've been told there is basically zero communication between R&D and Viessmann Belgium. But lets hope for the best.

If someone from Viessmann is reading this: please also implement the "acknowledged as missing, but nothing more" items! Especially the eco-mode shortcut and adjustable time periode are a must-have essential feature that should have been there from day one!

I will update this topic when I have extra information

[TakieYC]

After all the previous troubles, my Vicare Smart Climate components became completely unreachable 7 days ago. Vicare app works and is connected to the boiler/internet but all my RF smart climate components (valves, repeaters, climate sensors) are unreachable. This effectively means my heating is uncontrollable and unusable at the moment. Should this have happened in the winter my house would be freezing by now.

Still awaiting - after 7 days - any support from Viessmann. Send about 8 e-mails (both to Viessmann BE and DE) and a forum post here.

[TakieYC]

Finally some good news:

My smart climate components are back up and running, explanation in the thread linked in my previous post.

Also it seems the valve position state does finally work in Vitoguide:

Let's hope this positive news trend continues!

 

[TakieYC]

Update: unfortunately no more good news.

I've been told by the Belgium Viessmann management that new products are being prioritized over this by r&d. They cannot assure me anymore if and when any improvements will be made to Vicare Smart Climate.

I really get the feeling they just abandoned this product. Which is infuriating given the price I've paid and how inefficient is it with gas and electricity usage given the current energy prices.

Viessmann has lost all credibility with me.